PDF《会议过程正式纪录》

立法会2008 年7月11 日LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

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2008 607 会议过程正式纪录 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

2008 年7月11 日星期五 Friday,

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2008 上午

9 时正会议继续 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'

clock 出席议员: MEMBERS PRESENT: 主席范徐丽泰议员,大紫荆煜,G.

B.S., J.P. THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. 田北俊议员,G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P. 何俊仁议员THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN 何锺泰议员,S.B.S., S.B.ST.J., J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND HO CHUNG-TAI, S.B.S., S.B.ST.J., J.P. 李卓人议员THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN 李柱铭议员,S.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, S.C., J.P. 李国宝议员,大紫荆煜,G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. 立法会2008 年7月11 日LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

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2008 608 李华明议员,J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING, J.P. 吕明华议员,S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LUI MING-WAH, S.B.S., J.P. 吴霭仪议员THE HONOURABLE MARGARET NG 周梁淑怡议员,G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. 涂谨申议员THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN 陈婉娴议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P. 陈智思议员,G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE BERNARD CHAN, G.B.S., J.P. 陈鉴林议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. 梁刘柔芬议员,G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SOPHIE LEUNG LAU YAU-FUN, G.B.S., J.P. 梁耀忠议员THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG 单仲偕议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P. 黄宜弘议员,G.B.S. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG, G.B.S. 立法会2008 年7月11 日LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

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2008 609 黄容根议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG YUNG-KAN, S.B.S., J.P. 曾钰成议员,G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. 杨孝华议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, S.B.S., J.P. 杨森议员,J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM, J.P. 刘千石议员,J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK, J.P. 刘江华议员,J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH, J.P. 刘皇发议员,大紫荆煜,G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. 刘健仪议员,G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. 刘慧卿议员,J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. 蔡素玉议员,J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHOY SO-YUK, J.P. 郑家富议员THE HONOURABLE ANDREW CHENG KAR-FOO 谭耀宗议员,G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. 石礼谦议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, S.B.S., J.P. 立法会2008 年7月11 日LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

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2008 610 李凤英议员,B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LI FUNG-YING, B.B.S., J.P. 张宇人议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P. 陈伟业议员THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP 冯检基议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. 余若薇议员,S.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE AUDREY EU YUET-MEE, S.C., J.P. 方刚议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. 王国兴议员,M.H. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, M.H. 李永达议员THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT 李国英议员,M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LI KWOK-YING, M.H., J.P. 李国麟议员,J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, J.P. 林伟强议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DANIEL LAM WAI-KEUNG, S.B.S., J.P. 林健锋议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. 梁君彦议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, S.B.S., J.P. 立法会2008 年7月11 日LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

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2008 611 梁家杰议员,S.C. THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. 梁国雄议员THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG 郭家麒议员DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI 张超雄议员DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG 张学明议员,S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG HOK-MING, S.B.S., J.P. 黄定光议员,B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, B.B.S. 汤家骅议员,S.C. THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. 詹培忠议员THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG 刘秀成议员,S.B.S., J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE PATRICK LAU SAU-SHING, S.B.S., J.P. 邝志坚议员THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHI-KIN 谭香文议员THE HONOURABLE TAM HEUNG-MAN 陈方安生议员,大紫荆煜,J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, G.B.M., J.P. 立法会2008 年7月11 日LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

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2008 612 缺席议员: MEMBERS ABSENT: 张文光议员THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG 霍震霆议员,G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY FOK TSUN-TING, G.B.S., J.P. 郑经翰议员,J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT JINGHAN CHENG, J.P. 出席政府官员: PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: 政制及内地事务局局长林瑞麟先生,J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN LAM SUI-LUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS 保安局局长李少光先生,I.D.S.M., J.P. THE HONOURABLE AMBROSE LEE SIU-KWONG, I.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY 列席秘书: CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: 秘书长冯载祥先生,S.B.S, J.P. MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG, S.B.S., J.P., SECRETARY GENERAL 助理秘书长李蔡若莲女士MRS CONSTANCE LI TSOI YEUK-LIN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 立法会2008 年7月11 日LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

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2008 613 助理秘书长甘伍丽文女士MRS VIVIAN KAM NG LAI-MAN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 助理秘书长吴文华女士MS PAULINE NG MAN-WAH, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 立法会2008 年7月11 日LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

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2008 614 主席:法定人数不足,只有19 人.秘书,请响钟.(在传召钟响后,多位议员进入会议厅)主席:已有足够法定人数.会议开始.法案 BILLS 法案二读Second Reading of Bills 恢复法案二读辩论Resumption of Second Reading Debate on Bills 主席:本 会继续就恢复《 投诉警方独立监察委员会条例草案》的 二读进行辩论.吴霭仪议员.《投诉警方独立监察委员会条例草案》INDEPENDENT POLICE COMPLAINTS COUNCIL BILL 吴霭仪议员:主席,回首前尘,在整整11 年前,在这个会议厅中,当时的立法局审议了警监会的条例草案.当时,我的一位很显赫的选民D张健利资深大律师D亲自来到立法局,督促我们要用心审议这项条例草案,以确保它能够在回归前获得通过.主席,其后,事情的发展当然事与愿违,虽然我们让条例草案通过了,但在三读时却被当时的保安局局长黎庆宁先生撤回,引起了很大的风波.后来,我们均认为有责任督促政府早日再次提交条例草案.主席,我们等了10 年,条例草案终於回来了.但是,我今天站在这里,我想说:这 项条例草案即使没有了,也 毫不足惜.我 甚至可以说: 它有甚麽好处呢?我甚至可以说,它是无益有害的.主席,为甚麽会这样呢?为甚麽事情会落得如此田地呢?因为我们看到,一个非法定的机构和一个法定的警监会之间,最主要的分别是甚麽. 最基本的分别是,非法定机构的最终负责立法会2008 年7月11 日LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

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2008 615 者是行政长官或港督,因为它只不过是协助他做某些事情的一个委员会而已.所以,该机构做得好,是他的荣誉,做得不好,是他的失职.但是,如果该机构成为了法定机构后,情况会变成怎麽样呢?法定警监会会有甚麽的变化呢?法例既赋予了法定警监会权力,也提供了资源,因此它便须对所做的事全权负责;

警监会做得好或不好, 便是警监会的事. 主席,我 们每一位议员都支持设有一间独立的机构处理这方面的事,因 此,原则上,独立的法定机构会受到公众的监管,也向公众负责,这一直都是我们努力争取的目标. 但是,当我看到这项条例草案时,不禁想问,究竟它能否做到这些事呢?这项条例草案能否赋予将来的警监会所需的权力,它所需的资源,它所需........